Filling in the Gaps: Tenor Saxophonist Robert Carroll
Matthew “Fat Cat” Rivera
A still of Robert Carroll from a Vitaphone short of Don Redman and his orchestra, December 1934
ORIGINAL ARTICLE
My awareness of the tenor player Robert Carroll goes back about four years to the day when I also first met solographer Jan Evensmo, and, upon telling him I was from Louisville, he asked me to uncover Robert Carroll acetates. Later Phil Schaap did a show on Bob Carroll and demanded a birth certificate.
Both were tall enough orders, but now at least one is fulfilled.
No, I don't have new Bob Carroll music for you (yet), but we can now consider the exact birth and death dates settled. I have also found information on Carroll's family, plus new information on his whereabouts after his years on record (1931-1942).
Since some people have spelled Carroll's name with one l instead of two, Phil alerted me to the possibility of having luck searching under that spelling. I can confirm it is Carroll with two lls: Robert Carroll's full name is in fact Robert Newbold Carroll.
A call to the birth and death records office in Kentucky, asking for Robert Carrol(l) with both spellings and a circa 1905 birth year, left me with a hint: the clerk told me that all of their documents are available on ancestry.com, so I signed up for a free trial rather than going to the office to start digging through the records. And yes, it was as easy as that. No broken down cars, no musty barns, it's all been on the internet.
It didn't take long to hit gold. The 1905 estimated birth year led me astray, but searching for Robert Carroll born in Louisville and living in New York in 1940 (a census year when he records for the last time with Don Redman) gave me a match. In the 1940 census (see lines 38 & 39), there is a Robert Carroll from Kentucky living on 142nd St. with a spouse: Lottie Carroll. His age is 31, making the birth year 1909. The real nailer is the profession: Musician.
With this info, I refined the search, and voila, he is in the Louisville censuses of 1910, 1920 and 1930 (see lines 75-80). His parents are Jeremiah Carroll and Minnie Dorsey Jackson. Their addresses include Roselane street (which still exists, but no longer has the address), and Burnett St. (which I assume corresponds to what is now Burnett Ave. which runs close by). My high school was near these streets.
His 1909 birthdate would put Carroll in closer proximity to Jonah Jones, Lionel Hampton, Dicky Wells and Helen Humes, making involvement with the Booker T. Washington Community Center possible, as well as connection to these musicians.
I also discovered a passenger list for the S.S. De Grasse, which returned Teddy Hill and His Orchestra (including Robert Carroll) to NYC from the UK in 1937.
The most revealing document is Carroll's Report of Internment from the Long Island National cemetery. This document proves that Carroll's birth date is February 3, 1909 and his death date is October 19, 1952. The form, attached, is evidence that Carroll served in the military from September 28, 1942 to October 3, 1945. He was in a military band, specifically the 373 ASD Band AGD.
These verified military service dates disqualify Carroll as a player on the Louis Armstrong recording in L.A. of 1944 that Jan Evensmo mentions as being a possible RC item in the solography.
He's buried at the Long Island National Cemetery in Farmingdale. At the point of his burial, his address was 511 W. 134 St.
There is little else on the obscure Carroll, except for the fact that a search on his siblings revealed that his brother Alfred Milton Carroll was a prominent lawyer in Louisville who was posthumously awarded for his work on important civil rights cases in the 1960s. Alfred Milton Carroll had four children, the oldest living relatives of Robert Carroll, and I have their phone numbers. I plan to contact them soon to find out anything I can. Pray for acetates!
2025 ADDENDUM
Jazz researcher Steven C. Bowie (author of a book on Cootie Williams and host of a podcast on Duke Ellington) contributes some new discoveries that add to our knowledge of Robert Carroll and his life.
WWII Draft Registration (front/back)
On October 16, 1940, Robert Carroll registered in NYC for the draft. Curiously his middle name is spelled Newbolt rather than Newbold and his address is different than listed on the 1940 census taken earlier in April of that year. In April, Carroll had been counted at 225 W. 142nd Street with Lottie Carroll. However in October, he listed his address as 225 W. 146th St (Apt. 19A) while Lottie was still at 225 W. 142nd St. (Apt. 2A). (Perhaps Carroll was staying with Lottie when he was counted in April, but since they were not yet married, he had taken his own place by October. Note that Lottie is also given Carroll’s last name although they wouldn’t be married for another two years.) Carroll lists his employer as Don Redman and their place of work as the Theresa Hotel. The registration also documented some of Carroll’s physical characteristics: 6’1”, 203 lbs with brown eyes, black hair and a “dark brown” complexion.
Robert N. Carroll married Lottie Newton in Manhattan on November 15, 1942 (within months of his enlistment–his profession is listed “Musician–US Army”). The document reconfirms his birth date/location and parentage, while adding a new known address of 2424 7th Ave., part of Strivers’ Row in Harlem. The two listened witnesses are Mabel Donald and Orelia Connor, about whom more research is needed.
On April 1, 1950, Robert and Lottie Carroll were counted in the 1950 census at their home at 511 W. 134th St. (Apt. 44). At the time, they had two lodgers Leonard D. Cooper (a 29 year old, divorced seaman originally of Pennsylvania) and Eleanora M. Hartwell (a 27 year old, separated clerk at a mechanic department). Lottie is listed as a house maid at a hotel. Given the paucity of Carroll’s known history after the end of WWII, it’s worth emphasizing the census does not list a job for Carroll, while also notating that he did not work last week and was not looking for employment.
By October 12, 1950, when Robert Carroll had his information once again taken down for the purposes of voter registration, he was living at 105 W. 137th St., Apt. 4. He had been in that election district just four months and was now listed as a lodger with a tenant with the last name Maddox. He had been in NYC for 16 years at that point, putting his arrival circa 1934. Registering as a democrat, he had previously registered the previous year in 1949 while living at 212 W. 138th St. Perhaps most interestingly, while the census did not enter an occupation, Carroll is here listed as an unemployed musician.
SUMMARY
ROBERT NEWBOLD CARROLL
b. February 3, 1909, Louisville, KY
d. October 19, 1952, New York City, NY
SPOUSE:
Lottie Carroll (1912-1970)
Married November 15, 1942
PARENTS:
Jeremiah Carroll (1880-1927) and Minnie Dorsey Jackson (1877-1950)
SIBLINGS:
Leonora M, Carroll (1903-1950)
Jerry E. Carroll (1906-1975)
Edwin L. Carroll (1914-1964)
Raymond Carroll (1917-1930)
Alfred Milton Carroll (1911-1966)
MILITARY SERVICE:
September 28, 1942-October 3, 1945
373 ASF Band AGD (military band)
KNOWN ADDRESSES:
Roseland Ave., Louisville, KY (1909-1920s)
Burnett St., Louisville, KY (as of 1930)
225 W. 142nd St., New York City, NY (as of April 1940)
225 W. 146th St., New York City, NY (as of October 1940)
2424 7th Ave., New York City, NY (as of November 1942)
212 W. 138th St., New York City, NY (as of 1949)
511 W. 134th St., New York City, NY (as of April 1950–1952)
105 W. 137th St., Apt. 4, New York City, NY (as of October1950)
GRAVESITE:
Long Island National Cemetery, East Farmingdale, New York
Plot: O 0 36774